St Kilda Centre - St Kilda

8 Jul 09 09:50

Marina

I've been reading recently about the proposed St K centre and wondered what the location possibilities were?

9 Jul 09 09:44

MODERATOR

Hi Marina,

This is something that the consultants will be looking into over the summer. There are a number of communities interested throughout the Outer Hebrides.

We'll keep you updated as this progresses. Kirstie

10 Jul 09 14:18

Ada

I live on the north west coast of North Uist - the closest land ( only 40 miles ) to the island of St Kilda. I am lucky enough to be able to see Hirta and Boreray and the stacs from my front door. The view is even better from the top of North Clettraval ( tarred road right to the top ) because with the elevation we can see almost all of the height of the cliffs of Connachar - ( there is not much hidden by the curvature of the horizon )

10 Jul 09 15:01

Archie

It seems to me that should a St Kilda Visitor Centre get the go-ahead, the common sense option would be to build it where the views of St Kilda are best on a clear day. That option must surely be North Uist, where the views of St Kilda are breathtaking. This would also tie in with the strong historical and contemporary links between the Uists and St Kilda, both economically and socially.

13 Jul 09 16:26

Nokie Morrison

I think the most neutral venue for this would be Flodabay, in the Isle of Harris.

17 Jul 09 13:52

Andrew

This centre deserves a building of international architectural standards. When you talk of this type of building it becomes a primer for tourism in its location. Therefore the visitor centre should be located where this can have the best impact on the Western Isles as a whole. North Uist, located centrally in the archipelego seems a sensible choice. In proximity to all locals, visually connected to St Kilda and with a direct ferry link to Skye. If the centre were situated on the West coast of North Uist this would ensure tourists the best possible chance of viewing the islands. Centres like these can be hugely successful if done correctly and the visual reference is vital, the seabird centre at North Berwick a fine precedent.

21 Jul 09 17:09

Murdo

Everybody seems to be stating whether or not you can see St. Kilda as the single most important point for the consultants. I will admit that The far west coast of North Uist does have the best view on a clear day and as far as I’m concerned this is the only point from the requirements document that Uist does have an advantage over Harris and is therefore being over emphasised. From all of the proposed locations (Harris. Uist & Lewis) Kilda is only visible on a good day, it’s not visible 100% of the year from anywhere and therefore the consultant’s shouldn’t give much weight to this requirement

What nobody has mentioned is that St Kilda is officially recognized by the government as part of the parish of Harris. This alone gives enough immediate weight for any visitor centre going in Harris. I can see the Cullen Hills from my house in Harris, is this sufficient grounds for a Cullen Hills visitor centre in Harris? Ok that’s a little tongue in cheek but does highlight that although visibility is a valid consideration its not one that much weight should be applied. St. Kilda is part of Harris it would therefore be bordering on criminal to have it located anywhere else!

The other point seems to be that Uist is situated centrally within the archipelago, if you go as the crow fly’s from Butt of Lewis to Barry/Vatersay you’ll find that the South of Harris is geographically the centre of the Western Isles and that Leverburgh is almost ideally situated as the central location for the whole of the Western Isles. (If in doubt measure it on google maps!)

Archie you mention strong historical and contemporary links between Uist and St. Kilda, both economically and socially, can you please expand on this and back it up! I’m guessing by contemporary you’re referring to the link between the Army base in Benbecula and North Uist. Harris has more modern social and economic links, in particular Leverburgh is the main hub for people to visit and see close up the awesome beauty of St. Kilda (not at 40+ miles distance). Kilda Cruises and Sea Harris have Leverburgh as their base and have truly opened up St Kilda as a tourist destination (Credit must also be given to Sea Trek in Uig for also opening up St. Kilda to tourism). This can easily be proved by the St Kilda warden who could supply the consultants with the visitor numbers pre and post 2005. This makes Leverburgh in Harris the current hub for tourists to St. Kilda and very important social and economic reason the visitor centre should be based there.

Andrew, you mention that Uist is serviced by a ferry from Skye, well Harris is also serviced by the ferry from Skye, in fact Harris has a total of 4 incoming and outgoing ferry links with the mainland and Uist.
You also suggest placing the visitor centre on the West Side of Uist would make economic sense. You must place these visitor centres in Tourist hubs if they are to have any chance of being profitable (there is no point in building a white elephant). The only tourist hub on North Uist is Lochmaddy as the main ferry terminal which has the highest throughput of visitors, this is therefore most sensible economic location in North Uist for the visitor centre to be placed. In an ideal world you would avoid such centralization but to economically viable it must be placed where it can receive most visitors and sell most meals, tea/coffee, gifts etc. This again makes leverburgh an ideal location for the visitor centre, it has the accommodation infrastructure, is the ferry terminal for North Uist, and like I said earlier is the current main hub for tourists and locals to visit St. Kilda. Leverburgh already has a thriving tourist industry and already has an excellent restaurant and bar. One of my concerns with such centres is that their cafes take business away from well established private business but from my view point the visitor centre could be economically sustainable from the overflow from the current restaurant in Leverburgh.

To be honest I can’t see how an independent consultancy firm could possibly recommend the St. Kilda centre to be anywhere other than Harris. The only section in the report where either Uist or Uig offer any kind of competition to Harris is the visibility of the St. Kilda and I consider this to be of little importance, like I said earlier St. Kilda is also visible from Harris on a “good day” and how many days a year do you get where Kilda is visible!

P.S. Anybody at PNE fancy changing the layout of this page so the comments are in a single column?

23 Jul 09 15:04

Proiseact nan Ealan

Hi Murdo, Could you be more specific about what you meant about the comments being in a single column!

Thanks PnE

23 Jul 09 18:26

Murdo

Sorry my post should have said "so the comments AREN'T in a single column". I was just wondering if the css or layout could be changed so the comments weren't in a narrow 220px column on the far right.

30 Jul 09 10:16

Proiseact nan Ealan

Hi Murdo, we're aware this isn't the ideal layout - it is the template we currently have available however looking into solutions. PnE

13 Aug 09 19:59

Kate MacDonald

The St. Kilda centre should be located in North Uist, to provide the best possible view of the archipelago. Anything else would detract from visitors' experience.

16 Aug 09 12:03

kenny maclean

As has been mentioned a few times,because of the prevailing weather in the islands,the centre cannot rely on "a view of st kilda" as a selling point. How detracting would it be to turn up and not see st kilda if you were expecting to? business sense would dictate not to make the view a priority. How detracting would it also be to find out that you had to drive to newton ferry and cross the sound , then stay overnight in harris, to be able to visit the islands? Im sorry butit is clear that Visiting the islands will be the main purpose of anyone whose main reason for visiting the hebrides is St kilda. Leverburgh is also a declared regeneration zone as far as economic development is concerned. As was previously mentioned, St kilda is part of harris, and on numerous fronts it would be criminal not to allow the people of harris the opportunity to develop their asset. with a Harris national park on the horizon, it will be ridiculous if the visitors centre to the jewel in the National park crown is not within the national park. I am confidentthe consultants will see the clear winner in this ridiculous contest,which will leave in any event more people unhappy than happy at whoever wins. i only hope the polititians will also see that South Harris need some support, before it proves it cultural links with st kilda by becoming totally empty of people. There has been a lot of noise lately about 5% depopulation in the hebrides.... the figures from south harris would be interesting to see, but certainly since the 70's the male population of South harris in Rodel,Strond and Borrisdale has fallen by almost 70%. Yes 70!!, and i can name them all, and the demographic profile of those that live there now is more shall we say "mature". The economic need, the business case, the location, and the historic and cultural connections all point to leverburgh. Any other decision will be politically motivated, unacceptable, possibly illegal and open to challenge. To use public funds to develop existing services is one thing, to publicly fund competing businesses is another.

18 Aug 09 22:19

Kirsten Maclean

I would love to see the St Kilda Centre in Leverburgh. I think it is the perfect location with the boat trips going from there to St Kilda from Leverburgh, the clear historical link between St Kilda and Harris and also the support of Bill Lawson locally. I also believe the Harris economy really needs a sustainable project such as this - one which would create meaningful jobs and also serve as a cultural/historical/arts attraction as well as a fantastic tourist attraction. It would bring a vitality to the area which is desperately needed. There is nothing like this in Harris, and as has previously been mentioned the population of Harris continues to decrease. It is essential that projects like this come to the area for economic and cultural growth. Leverburgh is the best possible location for a world class St Kilda Centre. I strongly believe it could and must be an integral part of sustaining the future of Harris. Thankyou!

19 Aug 09 15:47

Darlughda

Looking forward to visiting Scotland again in the future, and plan to see St. Kilda (Hiort) if I can. I am curious regarding the mythology and history of the language there. I'm also struck by some of similarities to the Blasket Islands off the south west coast of Ireland, whose last inhabitants also left in the 1930's.

20 Aug 09 03:49

Ian Hicks

Hi, I know this may not be the right forum, but seek your indulgence as it seemed most accessible. I work in local government for the City of Port Phillip, a municipal area that encompasses the former City of St Kilda. The City of St Kilda was originally established circa 1856. The place that we work from is still the St Kilda Town Hall in the suburb of St Kilda, Melbourne, Australia. I have read your website with some interest over a couple of years. My role here is as the manager responsible for our heritage, libraries, arts and festivals. Of interest to you might be that the City stages - and has done for 30 years - the St Kilda Festival (Music and community festival - 300,000 people) and St Kilda Film Festival (short films from emerging film makers). We also support a community group known as the St Kilda Historical Society. In relative historic terms we are a pretty contemporary place, as is most of Australia! But I am making contact now with a view to look at wether there is any interest in exploring possible connections between us going forward? I would welcome any feedback. Yours sincerely

Ian Hicks Manager Culture and Recreation City of Port Phillip Melbourne, Australia

20 Aug 09 12:39

Seumas

Hi Darlughda -Its great to hear you express an interest in visiting HIORT, these islands are trully mystical and magical and a day trip represents a once in a life time experiance for most people. Just so you are aware, two fully established companies Sea Harris www.seaharris.co.uk and Kilda cruises www.kildacruises.co.uk run scheduled day trips from their base in Leverburgh in South Harris to St Kilda between 3 and 5 times a week in the summer months. You can cruise in comfort, style and safey to your destination! Please feel free to get in touch if you would like any more information.

24 Aug 09 13:49

Andy Toynton

I had the immense privilege of visiting St Kilda earlier this month - thank you Seamus and Sea Harris.

From the visitor perspective, Leverburgh is by far and away the most appropriate location for the new Centre.

30 Aug 09 12:22

Eileen Johnson

Hi I comment as a repeat visitor to the Outer Hebrides over the past 10 years. I sympathise entirely with both North Uist and South Harris people who wish to give their local areas a boost, and wish them every success. However, I do wonder how the cost/benefits will stack up. I am not convinced that a St Kilda centre, in itself, will bring many additional visitors to the Outer Hebrides; but as an extra attrac-tion may increase revenue overall. I hope other sites might be linked with the centre for what they can tell us of aspect of life of St Kilda, perhaps a "St Kilda trail". (Barpa Langass - bronze age origins; sea birds Balranald etc).
Secondly, I am concerned that what remains on St Kilda itself is at risk, NB NTS's financial problems - how can these be safeguarded? Lastly, a bit of a cheek (!) but has Norman Gillies DNA been analysed to clarify the origin of St Kilda people? Eileen

31 Aug 09 09:38

john russell

i am trying to organise a trip to st kilda for my 50th birthday, anyone help me as to where to start

31 Aug 09 16:17

Murdo

John, just do a google (uk) search for "boat trip to kilda" or something similar and the main operators will be returned. Consultants might find your eventual choice and reasons interesting.

31 Aug 09 19:32

Seumas Morrison

Hi John, Probably the best place to start is Leverburgh, South Harris, where the two boats are based and run trips 3 - 5 days a week. Please feel free to check out the websites; www.seaharris.co.uk or www.kildacruises.co.uk and contact us for any further details or to check out availability and dates. Regards, Seumas.

3 Sep 09 11:30

John

The views of St Kilda from Cleitreabhal, North Uist are quite simply spectacular. It would seem common sense to have the centre based there and not in Harris or Lewis. Being able to see the archipelago obviously creates more of a connection, pretending otherwise is clearly misguided... North Uist is clearly the only sensible and realistic choice.

3 Sep 09 16:26

Anna Coyle

John - As a tourist or guest visiting for a weekend or even up to a week; how likely is it that I would actually be able to see these views?

Every day?... At least once in my trip?... Or are the percentages considerably lower than that?

If I am lucky enough to see the views, how do I then get to visit St Kilda for myself, or at least see any of the yachts or meet any National Trust Parties that are heading that way? Where can I find out about any of the genealogy or history of St Kilda? In particular, If I wanted to research the births, marriages and deaths of St Kilda, what parish would I find all of this information historically and currently registered under?

Is there anywhere in walking distance where I can relax with a coffee, a glass of wine or a fish and chips and write my postcards?

And then, after enjoying the view and my day - are there buses, taxis and bike hire supposing I want to explore a little more of the Western Isles in my short break?

Under no circumstances can people be allowed to forget who this centre is primarily for; Tourists and Guests.

Without question, the centre has to go to the location that can provide the complete visitor experience and has the existing infrastructure to support, compliment and sustain the venture - Leverburgh, South Harris.

To continually overstate the importance of the view alone is at best, incredibly short sighted.

3 Sep 09 17:06

CP

Visitor centres such as this already exist throughout the Western Isles and most of those have a big question mark hanging over them regarding their economic sustainability. Ultimately it is visitor numbers which will determine the financial viability of the St Kilda Centre and if this is overlooked when deciding which of the three short-listed locations is best placed to house the centre then there is a very real possibility that this world-class facility will be closed within a few years of it opening. I agree with you that it is time to get sensible and realistic John. Harris is the only sensible and realistic option for a St Kilda Visitor Centre.

3 Sep 09 19:54

Angus Campbell

150 people traipsed half way up Clettraval on Saturday to see St Kilda -what a disapointment it must have been when they didn't see it. 72 people came to Leverburgh this week to actually go to St Kilda and go they did. they spent four and a half hours walking round Hiort and then a trip close round the stacks before returning to Leverburgh. To me this is 'realistic' and the only sensible thing to do is to build the centre in Leverburgh where people can then go and visit St Kilda after researching it there.

Angus

4 Sep 09 00:55

Murdo

John I have grown rather tired of this single argument that because Uist has a view the centre should go there. How about another reason for the centre being situated there? Pretending that a view is only criteria that matters for the centre is surely far more misguided. If the view is the only foundation for the centre then the consultants and BBC alba should televise the live tossing of a coin to decide whether Cleitreval or Mangurstadh become the recommended site (could make it best out of 5 to make it more exciting).

The view criteria however does concern me. I have no doubt that Leverburgh in Harris should on merit will be the location of the proposed centre but I would like to know how much weight is being applied to the view criteria. I would like to know from the consultants if they are using a balanced scorecard approach to deciding which location they recommend, i.e. I want to know that the process will be 100% transparent.

Uig steering group had an article in the Gazette last week which basically said that the centre should be in Mangurstadh because it had cliffs that were similar to St Kilda and occasionally you can see it. The former seemed like a fairly desperate case for the centre being in Uig. St Kilda is part of Harris, historically, geographically, socially and economically (see numerous examples already posted here). If you consider the idea that Uig is a valid location for a St. Kilda Centre you should entertain the notion that in the future the Uig Chessmen return, and Harris becomes the home for the exhibit. There would be fury as Harris would have no rightful claim for such an exhibit, similarly Uig has no claim for a St. Kilda centre!

There is absolutely no doubt that out of the 3 locations short listed Leverburgh is the only one that is economically viable. Hub and spoke model is fine, but Leverburgh in Harris is the only valid choice for the hub.

Finally... John Russell, I sincerely hope you make it out to St. Kilda. I'm fortunate to have been once and would love to go again. The only way to see St Kilda is not from 40 miles away but to go there and get an idea of its history and the struggle they had to exist, to peer over the edge of the highest sea cliffs in the UK, to stand on the deck of a boat directly underneath its incredible sea stacs, to be within touching distance of Boreray which is as high as the Empire State building while tens of thousands of sea birds fill the sky above you. Words really don't do it justice and I guarantee you will not be disappointed.

9 Sep 09 20:08

JA

In reply to Angus. If the centre was based at Cleitreval then Griminish harbour is only three miles away and trips could leave from there... it would be by far the shortest route and would give those who pay to go out there longer on St Kilda and less time on a boat. No brainer.

10 Sep 09 16:05

Murdo

Quote J.A: "Griminish harbour is only three miles away and trips could leave from there"

"COULD" being the operative word.. Whereas from Leverburgh trips "DO" leave from there... Its a no brainer!

Besides is Griminish really suitable for the size of boat required to make the trip to St. Kilda (I think not!).

I've been to St Kilda from Leverburgh and you're seriously splitting hairs over the time difference. Leaving from Leverburgh gave us more than enough time to tour the whole of Hiort. The Village to the Gap, to Conachair, to Soay and the Mistress Stone with plenty time to spare. Now consider this, we arrived back in Leverburgh between 7:30 and 8pm and were famished after all that hill walking but we were able to go to the Anchorage restaurant and have an excellent meal. What are your options if you arrive back in Griminish?

10 Sep 09 20:02

Settler

I agree the only way to get the St Kilda experience is to actually go there and see it for yourself. why are we spending thousands on a disneyland version of St Kilda while the MOD are pulling out leaving the owners with an impossible task? Any public money should be spent on preserving the real St Kilda, not on some tacky virtual reality version!

11 Sep 09 14:53

Roger Berkley

St Kilda is in the parish of Harris. Why is this debate ongoing?!!!

11 Sep 09 18:50

john russell

hi and thanks for the advice on how to get there, i at least know now where to start. for my 35th birthday i got a book called st kilda portraits by david quine, and this year i finally read it... what a brilliant fascinating story of a hardy group of people. i would love to experience this way of life, if only for a few weeks. unfortunately in 2009 i doubt whether i would have the stamina.

15 Sep 09 21:39

john russell

actually, could anyone give me a rough idea of how much it costs to visit st kilda

21 Sep 09 09:28

Terry

Hi John,

There are 2 distinct types of trip. It's £160-£180 for the day trips and obviously more for the 3-4 day adventure type trip.

Think you'll find the details on their websites

Here are the ones I know of...

seaharris.co.uk kildacruises.co.uk seatrek.co.uk beyondthebluehorizon.co.uk island-cruising.com

28 Sep 09 17:26

Sandra

I think the centre should be situated in North Uist.The west side of North Uist is one of the most spectacular places in the Western Isles. As well as having view's of St Kilda (which has to be a plus),it's close to the Balranald nature reserve which is home to a huge variety of birds,and attracts a lot of visitors each year and a stones throw from the Claddach Kirkibost centre which has a lovely cafe area.Uist has always had historical links with St Kilda,Policing and the courts were based in Lochmaddy for all of the Long Island. (From Barra to Harris)and also the poorhouse which later became Lochmaddy hospital. North Uist medical practice took in St Kilda and the last doctor to cover St Kilda was Dr MacKenzie of Scolpaig,North Uist.These links still continue to the present day with the people presently employed on St Kilda being transported from Benbecula airport on the helicopter which flies back and forth 2 days a week, every week. Uist outdoor centre does sailing trips to Kilda, details can be found on the outdoor centre website.The website claims that it's the fastest way to get there except by helicopter. Lochmaddy has sailings from Uig 7 days a week, 2 sailings every 2nd day and the 4 sailings between Leverburgh and Berneray.As well as having frequent daily sailings from Barra to Eriskay and also between Oban and Lochboisdale Benbecula(30 min. drive away)also has 2 flights in from Glasgow daily 1 on a Sunday.

1 Oct 09 01:49

Terry Tibbs

Supply and Demand was prob the main reason for the Outer Hebrides court being situated in Lochmaddy ;-) but these historical links are pretty tame because St. Kilda is in parish of Harris its History is part of Harris' history. That is an inescapable fact!

You can get to Kilda from Uist, the Outdoor centre is an excellent business that caters for the needs of the adventure tourist not your average tourist. To me its same as natural selection, there are many sites you can get to St. Kilda from but Leverburgh has evolved into the natural, most popular hub for tourists. Its not as simple as which location gets you there quickest, there are so many factors when deciding, either way Leverburgh is undeniably the natural hub for St Kilda. I'm quite sure by now the Consultants have been in touch with NTS and that the statistics (i'm 100% confident) will prove that the boat trips by Sea Harris & Kilda Cruises have been responsible for substantial increase in visitors to St. Kilda.

Harris simply top trumps the 2 other locations in almost all aspects. One of the key aspects is Leverburgh's argument is economic viability. Now Sandra call me the new Coinneach Odhar. but “Should the Kilda Centre be near Griminish, the lovely Cafe in Kirkibost shall diminish”. I don't think a Centre in Uist could sustain itself, and a vast majority of tourists will drive straight past the lovely cafe in Kirkabost because they know the cafe in the St. Kilda centre is only another 15mins away, and many will probably be on the other side of the ring road so they'd get to a Kilda Centre in Uist 1st. So placing it in Uist could very well lead to the loss of jobs and the closure of a private business at the expense of a publicly funded centre.

Finally the Benbecula range link does establish a present day link between Uist and a Missile Testing Range. Leverburgh is present day St Kilda link for ferrying National Trust Staff, Archaeologists, Scientists and all the volunteers who pay to spend the summer conducting the work that keeps St Kilda what it is today. When the army moved in they very nearly bulldozed the village, indeed they started to but where fortunately stopped by the NTS.

3 Oct 09 12:35

John

I am amazed with this site, we have read that North Uist has no historical link and when some are shown they became very tame. What I would like to hear are what historical links Harris has, if any ? The only link I seem to read are either boat trips or census links, so if North Uist links are tame I hate to think how you would describe the Harris link. North Uist also has boat trips out to St. Kilda and they leave from three harbours not one, and from each harbour we have great views have a look at the proposed site in Harris. If this centre is going to be a risk to any that exist in Uist today I would expect it will also be the same risk to any that are in Harris. May I end this by saying that life does not start and end in Harris thankfully.

3 Oct 09 20:49

Iain

After reading all the above about who should or who should'nt, who has the best harbour and who has the most sailings would it nor be better for each application to win on merit and historical link instead of a slagging match. I was amazed to read that the only link North Uist has is its view of St. Kilda, it has as much if not more of a historical link with St. Kilda than Leverburgh or Uig. 1. In 1875 after a number of meetings it was agreed to set up a poorhouse and hospital that would serve the Long Island, which took in from Harris to Barra. It became operational in 1884 and was based in Lochmaddy with a total of 45 residents and was known as the "Long Island Combination Poorhouse. 2. The Long Island Police Divison came into effect in 1840 - 1858 and the Inverness Constabulary from 1885 - 1975 and took in all Islands from Harris to Barra and was based in Lochmaddy. 3. Lochmaddy Sheriff Court had responsibility of all Islands from Harris to Barrra and along with this H.M. Prison was also based in Lochmaddy. Both took in all Islands from Harris to Barra (and had inmates from all islands). 4. North Uist Medical Practice took in St. Kilda and the last Doctor to cover St. Kilda was the legendary MacKenzie of Scolpaig who stood down in 1932. 5. Under the census returns St. Kilda comes under the parish of St. Kilda until 1871, after this some bright spark added Harris in brackets and it now becomes the Census for St. Kilda (Harris) Parish. Under Deaths, Marriges and Baptisms the files still came under St. Kilda. In any case all the Long Island came under the county of Inverness, so perhaps we should build the centre in Inverness since the view point is not one to go by. 6. Royal Mail sent mail out to St. Kilda from Lochmaddy.

As for the ports North Uist has three that can and are used for going out to St. Kilda. May I end this by saying that if anyone bothers to come to North Uist to see the proposed site with views to Heisker and St. Kilda which can be seen on most days, with open fields full of wildlife, white beaches close by and cliffs full of bird life what else could anyone ask for ?

3 Oct 09 21:48

Iain

Could I please correct myself with the above, the Inverness Constabulary was from 1858 - 1975.

4 Oct 09 10:41

angus

Hi Iain Which three harbours are you on about? while you are at it, how far will sailors from visiting yachts or charter vessels have to walk from each of these harbours to the proposed site in Uist

5 Oct 09 04:02

Iain

Yes Angus we have three harbours that are used from North Uist and they are not slipways. I am stating facts and will not be drawn into some sort of who has what and whos best debate. Decide on merit not on a bullying contest.

5 Oct 09 08:24

Terry

This isn't a bullying contest Iain, it's a debate! Angus' question is a fair question and if you want this on merit you must answer the question so Consultants and readers of this forum can make up their minds.

And while I'm here may I just point out that John asked what historical links if any does Harris have apart from the Census, somewhat flippant to dismiss Census records as not being Historic.

His final flame about life not starting and ending in Harris is exactly the point... For St. Kildan's life started and ended in Harris and a major reason why the centre's righful home is Harris!!

6 Oct 09 08:29

John

I was just reading Terrys bit and I was half expecting a bright light to blind me as I read the following You must answer the question. I am sorry Terry I dont as this is a forum so members of the public can say what they think and not to be told what to say or think, these days are long gone. As for the census I did not dismiss it, I'made the point that before 1871 it was under the parish of St. Kilda and after that it was under Harris. I am very sorry if making a point is looked upon as being flippant. Angus also questions the harbours. We have two harbours that can and are used Lochmaddy and Berneray, we also have four slipways Otternish, Berneray, Lochmaddy and Griminish these are also used. As for how far people have to walk with most of the above they are close to Hotels of cafes and in any case in North Uist we make full use of the invention of the car or bus. As for what St. Kildan's thought, I do not think so much of myself to think that I can talk for people who died before I was born. I will leave that up to Terry.

8 Oct 09 09:49

Keith McGregor / Mairi Laverty

St Kilda Centre Exhibition We have recently completed our masters degree in architecture at the University of Strathclyde, Glasgow for which we used the St Kilda Centre as a basis to develop a design strategy and proposal for the project.

As a final leg to our masters project we have arranged to exhibit the work we produced in Claddach Kirkibost Centre, North Uist from the 19th-21st October and Seallam! Visitor Centre, Isle of Harris from the 22nd-23rd October.

Our exhibition consists primarily of drawings for the overall strategy and a series of scale model representations of our architectural proposals for the St Kilda Centre.

We would like to invite all those who are interested to come along and view our work and give us your thoughts. We hope to see you there.

Claddach Kirkibost Centre, North Uist - 19th-21st October (Mon 10a.m-5p.m, Tues 10a.m-8p.m, Wed 10a.m-1p.m)

Seallam! Visitor Centre, Isle of Harris - 22nd-23rd October (Thur 10a.m-8p.m, Fri 10a.m-5p.m)

8 Oct 09 14:50

Ceit Anna

Cllr Angus McCormack at the start of this process invited comments via the web stating that they would be brought into consideration. Much has been written, but at the end of the day this must boil down to two matters - viability and accessibility (the former being inextricably linked to the latter.)
Take for example the Leverburgh proposal to provide research and other educational facilities for schools - bearing in mind that today’s children will be the future lifeblood of any Centre. Those travelling to Uist would have to take vehicles across the ferry or be provided with transport on the other side. On the other hand a day trip to Uig from, say South Uist, would simply not be viable. However Leverburgh is fully accessible from throughout Lewis and Harris and children from Uist could cross on the ferry as foot passengers and walk 100m to the Centre. The same of course applies to adult visitors. When - or if - this happens it will be expensive and it will provide a world-class experience which should surely be available to the highest number of people which it can possibly attract. There can surely be no question about viability - recently published figures such as 54,000 passengers on the Sound of Harris, 28,000 visitors to the Tourist Information Centre at Tarbert, 22,000 at Stornoway TIC and 11,000 at Lochmaddy TIC - is the irrefutable proof. So far as Uist is concerned, the vast majority of the population live well north of the Sound of Harris and in Uig’s case any Centre would be as far off the spinal route as you can possibly get.
The decision-makers (whether the Working Group or whoever) bear a heavy responsibility to get the centre’s location right.

9 Oct 09 13:29

Iain

If the schools and children are to be the lifeblood of the centre, I can assure you we in Uist have an ample supply of both and this centre is to educate people of all ages.Just as above anyone comming over from Harris can easily be transported to the proposed site. Uist is fully accessible from Berneray, Uist, Baleshare, Grimsay, Benbecula, South Uist, Eriskay and Barra. On a Sunday you can come to Uist from Skye and any other part of the Western Isles for the day. As I take it the centre will be closed on a Sunday in Leverburgh, so it will be accessible 6 days in Harris and 7 days in Uist. As for the 54,000 passengers on the sound of Harris, may I make the point that at some stage they have to set foot on Uist soil, or do we have some sort of wormhole above the sound that miraculously gets them on to the Lochportain, what next the parting of the water ? May I congatulate the council in Benbecula that the Islands south of the sound are so well sign posted and layed out that such a small number of people need any help from the Tourist Information Centre in Lochmaddy. So for Viability and Accessibility the Uists can easily stand alongside Leverburgh. If the vast amount of the population live far North of the sound of Harris surely this makes the case for it to be based in Uig ? It would be good to hear from the people of Uig as well, as Leverburgh think it is a one horse race but many a race has been lost at the last hurdle.

23 Oct 09 10:57

Murdo

When I few of these Spam comments were left on the forum I began to question if it was in anyway moderated. With amount of spam here its evident it isn't!!

CAPTCHA, anyone??

25 Oct 09 17:11

Douglas Murray

As a grandson of George Murray, teacher 1886-87, I greatly enjoyed the "pilgrimage" to Hirta in September. The background information available at the centre at Northton, and the very professional trip to and around the islands, support my view that the obvious location of a visitor centre would be in the south of Harris. St Kilda was part of the parish of Harris, and in Invernessshire, and certainly had no links with Lewis.

25 Oct 09 17:29

Douglas Murray

Our trip, of course, was from Leverburgh.

30 Oct 09 11:05

alyson

i love st kilda sooo much. i'll fund a refurbishment of the whole island with my wages from the sewage works.

31 Oct 09 22:18

Terry

@Mairead Where is your previous post where you nailed your colours to one of the other locations???

I think Jura consultants (if they bother to read this???) Should take note that the one 2 communities who passionately cared enough to get involved in the debate and fight their corner were Uist & Harris. Perhaps Jura should have scored which community most wanted the centre??

Now either ppl from Uig had nothing to say, or nothing worth saying relative to other 2 locations or knew it was more important to push other buttons!

I genuinely thought if this had been on merit it would go to Harris, but thought Uist was by far our closest rival. I still genuinely don't understand how a Mangersta decision was reached

2 Nov 09 11:19

Mairead

Terry, No previous post I'm afraid, but I don't believe that that's here nor there...

"I genuinely thought if this had been on merit it would go to Harris, but thought Uist was by far our closest rival. I still genuinely don't understand how a Mangersta decision was reached"

With you on that one...it's all politics I'm afraid, take a look at who's on the both the 'Working Group'and the Mangurstadh promoters club and things become a bit clearer..

2 Nov 09 15:24

Graham MacLennan

The farcical announcement that Mangurstadh is the front runner lifted my blood pressure to levels i seldom know and results in my 1st ever letters to mainstream newspapers. The argument that Uig looks like St. Kilda and would provide similar vistas is ludicrous. To that end, the Irish should petition that the Wallace monument be in Ireland as Braveheart was filmed there. The location is the most awkward to get to and as posted above, the community was hardly heart and soul behind the proposal. As a Glaswegian with both Harris and Lewis blood, I have to say there were only 2 options Harris or Uist. Shame on the working group and shame on the council if they accept this. President Karzai in Afghanistan would be proud of this type of "democracy at work"

3 Nov 09 22:38

Shona

I would like to register both my dismay and incredulity at the manner in which this decision was reached. Had the final decision been based on the original criteria set out for all three communities, then we would just have to accept the result. However, it appears that this was not the case. Serious questions, I think, need to be raised concerning a) the manner in which this report was executed and b) the composition of the St Kilda Working Group.

4 Nov 09 10:34

sandra

Cant believe the outcome of this fiasco. Im really disappointed for Uist and equally disappointed for Leverburgh. Im totally gobsmacked by this and it's not sour grapes, honest,but the term "damp squib" definately springs to mind now.

5 Nov 09 19:25

Rhona Johnstone

I haven't read through all the comments so apologies if this has already been mentioned but the access to the site in Mangersta is not great. Uig in general is a long way off the spinal route and the road from Garrynahine is not particularly suited to the increased amount of traffic that the centre there would attract. I agree with a previous commentator that Leverburgh would be ideal as there is already the link with the boat trips to Hiort. All the same I look forward to visiting the centre wherever it may end up being.

5 Nov 09 21:00

Graeme MacFothaidh

This is curious as the Press and TV announce that the site has been chosen, first at Uig, and then at Mangerstadh. Uig would be preferable as it is more easily reached. The former Presbyterian kirk or school could be utilised.

5 Nov 09 23:52

Angus

I think the obvious place for the centre is in North Uist.

The view is much better being closer and there are regular boat trips from the nearest harbour at Griminish to St Kilda.

I have seen phots of St Kilda from Mangersta which look like small rocks its so far away.

As you can see from previous posts, there are plenty links between Uist and St Kilda.

Try www.uistoutdoorcentre.com they do boat trips from Uist.

Angus Campnell, your boat would easily get into Griminish harbour.

5 Nov 09 23:51

Kristen

I have not had the distinct pleasure of visiting St Kilda's as of yet, but would love to see it one day. Preservation and education is the single best way of bringing the unique heritage and environment of this fantastic place. Much luck and support!

6 Nov 09 13:08

Gus

Typical sour grapes and anti Leodhasach sentiments from the southern neighbours. Very unlike the 'Gentlefolk of Uig'!! Facts are: Leverburgh is the wrong part of Harris to situate the centre and Cleitrabhal is the wrong part of North Uist. They both shot themselves in the foot with this. Mangustadh is stunning. It has incredible coastal scenery and an ocean beaten beach which has no equal in the British Isles. It truly reflects the Hebridean experience captured in the Uig song 'An Aitearachd Ard'. As for the remoteness of Uig well where do I start. That is what attracts people. St Kilda is all about remoteness!! The road from Garynahine is actually a very good one and it is being improved further as we speak. Finally as for Lewis having no links to Hiort all I have to say is utter guff. Also there are actually boat trips from Uig to Hiort so that argument is nonsense also!!

6 Nov 09 14:39

Robert Bigelow

If I may, I wish to propose the site be located on the island of North Uist where the views are absolutely splendid and a good number of local inhabitants speak Scots Gaelic fluently, one of whom a favourite and celebrated musician and performer, Ms. Julie Fowlis, is a native of the island. Tapadh leat. S'mise, Robert.

7 Nov 09 08:38

John

I am glad that someone at long last has spoken up from Uig. I was allways told that silence was golden but I did'nt think it was that good. Harris and Uist put bids in for the centre as laid out at the start, so they were'nt wrong with where they decided to put the centre they stuck to the document proposals. We now find out that the Uig group are mind readers, they put in a bid that would fit into the revised document and would knock Harris and Uist out. As for the great historical links Uig are supposed to have, please someone tell us all what they are ? One thing for sure Harris and Uist have more links with St. Kilda than Uig can dream of, as this whole preocedure has now gone into cloud cuckoo land. If Harris and Uist shot themselves in the foot the gun was loaded and fired by the consultants.

9 Nov 09 18:19

Angus Campbell

See what we are up against if you dont live in Lewis http://www.hebridesnews.co.uk/fairandopenoverstkildacentre.html

9 Nov 09 19:33

Gus

John - Just to point out some facts re Uig and Hiort. Uig fishermen out of Valtos, Kirkibost and Carloway have fished out there since the very early days of long lining. Also one of the very earliest St Kilda mailboats washed up at Aird Uig was addressed to a schoolteacher in Uig. Why would the writer Alexander Fergusson address it to him? This is just one example! The references on earlier messages relating to links between Harris and Uist to Hiort would appear to relate to outdated parish boundaries set out by government rather than any interaction between real people. Uig folk do not need to justify any links to the place but nasty comments posted on here practically state there was some cheating going on. Poor show I have to say.

10 Nov 09 07:12

John

Hello Gus, good to hear from you, the good people of Uig were so quite I thought you had all left for St. Kilda to start to build the new centre. North Uist and Harris has shown all the historical links they have. They may be outdated but I thought that was the idea of historical links? I can assure you that it is more than a letter and a boat wreck. What are the rest of your links two or three letters. Letters were also sent to other parts of the country and abroad. They were sent to Canada and my cousin has a clear view of St. Kilda painted on his wall, so could the centre go to canada? of course not, it about time you came out of cloud cuckoo land. Uig was very lucky to put an application in that without knowing it would fit in to the revised document, if you want to call that cheating that is up to you, not me.

10 Nov 09 22:06

En Gobha na Hearadh

Can I just make reference to the much used "shame on you" castigation being repeatedly directed at the communities of Uist and Harris. Let us first examine the complaint of both these communities. It is that the agreed criteria for the scoring of this study has all but been abandoned and that a new criteria, conjured from thin air has mysteriously favoured the location with the weakest bid. Uist and Harris have been denied the honesty and integrity with which they engaged in the biding process in accordance with a criteria they were falsely led to believe would be used for scoring the study. I have no shame whatsoever in venting my absolute fury at this outrage. I have no shame in voicing my suspicion over the the consultants refusal to show transparency in their decision making process. The communities of Uist and Harris are campaigning for the highly regarded Hebridean principles of honesty and decency be returned to this decision making process. Shame on the Uig working group for not supporting our campaign.

11 Nov 09 15:55

Calum

http://stornowayhistory.wordpress.com/2009/11/10/the-goat-island-centre/#comments

11 Nov 09 15:01

Mòr

The St Kilda Centre is old news....it's the Chessmen that are the talk of the island at the moment, how about a centre dedicated to them...... in Harris?

11 Nov 09 20:03

Rhoda

Well said Mor, and the working group for the Uig Chessmen Centre will comprise of 10 Hearachs. Who will show no bias towards Harris.

12 Nov 09 16:23

Why did PnE delete this?

I hear what you’re saying Mor but I don’t think that the people of Harris would ever have the audacity to engage in a bid to house the Uig Chessmen. We have no claim to them and it would be wrong to attempt to deny the people of Uig from what is rightfully theirs. However it is possible that a consultancy firm may take the view that because a former world champion draughts player actually came from Harris; it provides a sufficient link to the game of chess and subsequently to the Uig Chessmen….. Actually I don’t think he ever was the official world champion but he was certainly the best player in Harris-House (they could always miss that bit out from the criteria anyway). However, I doubt that Harris would be able to have it all our own way as an equally strong bid could well be launched from the Northern tip of Lewis….. After all Ness does rhyme with chess!,,,,,,, Uig look out!!!

12 Nov 09 17:41

Kenny Norman Macleod

I see in today's Gazette that Uig deceitfully manipulated the online poll in that newspaper to their advantage. That really scrapes the bottom of the barrel. So much for honesty and integrity.

12 Nov 09 21:15

Anne Douglas

I am half St Kildan, my grandparents house being 3 Main Street.My mother was their 2nd youngest child. Though I live in Stornoway and my Aunt married an Uig man as afr as I'm concerned the centre should be Harris

13 Nov 09 10:47

Kirstie @ Proiseact nan Ealan

Hi, I have just noticed a comment entitled "Why did PnE delete this?". Just to clarify we haven't intentionally deleted any comments from this conversation - if something has gone missing, we would appreciate it if you could repost. Moran taing, Kirstie

13 Nov 09 23:30

Ruairaidh

I am writing these comments below as an interested onlooker and I am not in any way associated or involved with the uig working group.

I am very disappointed and saddened to read some of the comments on this site. I may be wrong here but were communities not invited to express an interest and prepare a case for having the proposed centre in their area. Why should uig not do this and be considered along with anywhere else.

to reply to a few other comments,I read the gazette too, and I didn't see anywhere that uig had deceitfully manipulated any poll. uigeachs have largely remained quiet on this subject as we do not see any merit in getting involved in a mud slinging match with other communities, this just tarnishes the whole idea of a st kilda centre and does no credit to any of the communities involved.

To respond to the hebrides news be fair and open comment, the new road in uig is finished and will not extend to mangurstadh. This has never even been a remote possibilty and to suggest so is laughable. I'm also a bit concerned that a lib dem ppc did not know about this section of new road, probably one of the biggest infrastructure projects of the last couple of years and has not visited uig for some time. this leads me to think she might not get too many votes over uig way. People in uig have been waiting for this new road for many many years, long before a st kilda centre was even a spark of an idea in anybodys brain.

No one can possibly dispute that Harris has very strong links with St kilda but the harris group engaged in this process along with uig and n uist. Did they think they were a certainty to get the centre, it seems to me having read much of the material generated by this furore over the last week or so that they did.

If people in Harris are upset over what they see as unfair changes to the process direct your criticism at the counsultants and the comhairle not the uigeaches. all communities took part in the process and it does harris no favours at all to invent conspiracy theories about uigs bid. It angers me to read some of the stuff on here and i have as much harris blood in me as uig blood.

I think uig has suffered for holding its peace and i hope this goes a little way to fighting uigs corner.

I can't help but feel that this harks back to the old lewis v harris battle, is it not possible in the 21st century to get past this?

I think some people writing earlier comments might benefit from having a look at the link left by calum, it might make you smile. Thats always a healthy thing.

that is if you can spare the time inventing and subscribing to anti uig conspiracy theories.

14 Nov 09 16:23

Peigi

Jura Consultants - who are they? Names please. Also names of Comhairle Committee dealing with this.

15 Nov 09 08:46

Domhnall Caim

Gle cheart Ruaraidh a'bhalaich! Just to quote from the Uig working group when the decision was announced. "The Uig group has never participtated in any negativism towards the other locations in contention with whom we look forward to working closely for the greater good of the Western Isles". This is one reason that there has been little debate on the matter from Uig. It is basically not in the nature of Daoine uasail Uige to enter a bitter game of mud-slinging.
Just to add to the ridiculous debate of this forum I note now someone has brought the Lewis Chessmen into the argument. Anyone with any knowledge of the subject knows that they have no place in the Western Isles as they were legitimatley SOLD to the museums in question!

15 Nov 09 14:39

CP

You really don't get it do you? Follow this link Http://st.kilda.info and look for yourself to see what is happening here. Do you really think that the communities of Uist and Harris are going to allow a stitch-up of this magnitude to take place and then say nothing about it? Get real! And please don't take the moral high-ground with anyone regarding mud slinging. It would be great to welcome the Uig working group aboard our campaign to have honesty and integrity returned to this process but instead they have stated that they are “honoured and proud” to have been chosen via a selection process which was clearly carried out in a dishonest fashion. Surely this cannot be the case Uig? Surely now that it has become apparent to you that the original criteria has all but been entirely abandoned and that the Uist and Harris working groups were mislead by the consultants, surely you are no longer “honoured and proud” to have been selected in this way. Surely you will join our campaign for honesty. We look forward welcoming you on board.

15 Nov 09 20:31

meg

Well done Ruairidh and Domhnall! We Uigeach have plenty to say, but out of respect for those who worked so hard, and so intelligently on the Uig proposals, we have kept quiet up till now. Well done all those on the Working Group and the Jura Consultants for not caving in to the blatant bullying of the last few weeks. You should be proud of your work. Not so the likes of our esteemed politicians, Jean Davis (who?) and Angus Brendan MacNeil! These "representatives" of the Western Isles have made themselves laughing stocks as a result of their inability to research the simplest of facts. Before now I felt sorry for the other two groups who submitted proposals, but following the nasty, bitter comments of the last few weeks, especially on this forum, I have no qualms in wholeheartedly backing the Uig group and their obviously superior proposal and presentation. 'Smath a rinn sibh! What a shame it all had to be reduced to this level. Some of the comments here have saddened me so much. Just one comment I must make to CP and En (?) Gobh na Hearadh, Uig has supported your so called "campaign" to ensure that honesty and fairness have been in play during these last weeks, but we have done so privately and with dignity. Nobody in Uig would want to be associated with any process in which there had been any wrongdoing. Although in recent days, through this forum and a certain Facebook site, we have been likened to the Afghan government, called cheats, and implicated in corruption, we are none of these, but simply a remote community who wishes to improve the lot of its population, just like Harris and Uist, and is guilty only of putting together and presenting an excellent proposal.

16 Nov 09 09:55

rmacrae

I see what you mean Meg. Uig clearly did put a slick presentation together, but surely it is more important that you have a good CASE for the centre?

16 Nov 09 10:14

CP

Hi Meg, it's great to hear from you. By applying a process of elimination to your lambasting of Jean Davis and Angus Brendan MacNeil, I think I can I safely deduce where your political allegiance lies :-D (Shock Horror!) but that obviously has nothing to do with this debate does it?

However, I’m afraid that you have miss-understood my post. Uig have already claimed moral superiority over Harris and Uist via their stringent non-negativity policy and what we now want to see is for these same high moral standards to be applied to your assessment of this selection process. I think it is appalling that Uig have been called “cheats, and implicated in corruption” but I’ve figured out a way to clear your name! Answer this question please Meg! Are you happy that Uist and Harris were told to submit against a critera which was replaced without their knowledge? I look forward to hearing from our Champions of Moral Virtue

16 Nov 09 11:31

Olaf The Black

CP, rather than asking Meg to answer your question, I think you should first clarify just what your point is contained in your earlier sarcastic post. What are you implying when you state that Uist and Harris were told to submit against a criteria which was replaced without their knowledge. Are you making the statement that Uig alone were informed of this change in criteria and asked to submit on that basis. If so then what influence did the Uig team have over the consultants and council representatives. Its time to either PUT UP or SHUT UP!

16 Nov 09 11:02

rmacrae

Olaf, I can't agree. A person is entitled to a fair hearing and a fair process. When that has not been the case you should not 'Put up or shut up' as you aggressively put it. A fair and open process is in everyone's interest. The site must be right or we'll all be paying through the nose for it for years to come.

16 Nov 09 12:08

Lewis Celt

As someone living in Lewis, (and no, i'm not from Uig), who has been closely following this increasingly unpleasant debate, i have a couple of points i wish to make. In agreeing with the point Olaf The Black makes, i think it is absolutely outrageous that there is a suggestion being made by some conspiracy theorists from Harris and Uist on this thread that the Uig team were surrepticiously informed of changes to the criteria, (by the way, CP, "criterion" is the singular, "criteria" the plural), which the other teams were not made aware of, and that the people of Uig were therefore somehow complicit in some deceit to deny Harris and Uist. What slanderous nonsense! Where is your evidence for this? (Those making these fantastical and unfounded allegations should, from a legal point of view, be very careful if they continue down this road). It would be hilarious if it wasn't so unpleasant. I'm afraid that these sorts of accusations are merely manifestations of the very familiar, tedious, and chippy anti-Lewis agenda of some south of the Clisham, and rather, those people should acknowledge that in putting together their excellent, and ultimately successful proposal, the Uig team worked extremely hard (I know this to be the case), and are therefore worthy of congratulations. What has happened instead? Insinuations are made that the people of Uig are deceitful, corrupt and dishonest - nasty and graceless sour grapes from bad losers. This is as embarrassing as it is disgraceful. Uig is an area of Lewis which has suffered more than most from population decline and emigration, and an ever-worsening lack of employment opportunities for its young people, and it is thoroughly deserving of this long, long overdue good news. Those critical of Uig should have the good grace to recognise this, and stop whining.

16 Nov 09 12:38

Murdo

Deary Me, such aggressive capitalisation has not been seen on this forum till now... R Macrae has valid point, and leads to another simple question to those in Uig/Mangurstadh taking part in the debate...

Do you think it acceptable that "Economic Benefits" was removed from the original criteria?

16 Nov 09 14:39

Eilbheas

"Do you think it acceptable that "Economic Benefits" was removed from the original criteria?"

All areas of the Western Isles would benefit economically from a centre, so this aspect would be defunct from the out....3 points to each of the finalists on this front!

Also,

Having visited the proposed site in Uig, I was awestruck! It is amazing, perfect for a world class centre, which the St Kilda Centre is proposed to be!

The major weakness with the Harris bid seems to be their awfully chosen location! On the pier in Leverburgh by the scrap yard! It's not world class! There are many area in Harris which could easily have surpassed Uig on all points, but for some reason Leverburgh was chosen and the outcome was in favour of the Uig bid!

I would suggest that the response from Harris has been very agressive and goes against the grain of a supportive community spirit! Also I hear that the Jura Consultants are considering a possible libel claim against the Harris group, so on that front I would re-consider the output of frustrations!

16 Nov 09 14:17

Anna Coyle

Lewis Celt – Thank you for your input, in particular, your legal advice. However, you need not worry about us, I have personally been keeping a very close eye and ear on what has being said to ensure any comments from Harris have been above board, which they have been and will continue to be.(Whilst we are on this matter and in particular, pointing out peoples short comings in the manner YOU chose to do so… slander actually refers to ‘the spoken word’, the term you are incorrectly looking for, in reference to this public forum is ‘libellous’, however both these words are not technically applicable in Scotland as they are English legal concepts. The terminology you are looking for is defamation, defamatory etc.) Please get off your high horse.

For what its worth, my own personal opinion is formed largely from a natural allegiance to Harris, but crucially also as a tax paying member of a Western Isles community. Can we afford to build another white elephant?? The facts of the matter (as stated in Juras report), is that Leverburgh is the most economically viable location. It would attract the most visitors and I believe, having been to all three locations, that it would be the position most likely to survive without continual public bailouts or assistance of any kind. I do not for a second grudge Uig their interest in this centre, it would be of huge financial significance to any community in the Western Isles, but it has to go where is it most likely to survive! Do we not have hospitals, roads and schools to look after? (Please spare me the reply to this statement with the standard ‘different pot of money’ answer; Harris and the Southern Isles have heard this pitiful argument too often).

I am urging everyone sitting on the fence to consider the wider implications of the last few weeks. The black and white facts are out there, go and read them for yourself!

16 Nov 09 14:56

Angus

Hi All Meeting in Harris next week(Of All Places!!) All welcome, Uigeach's as well. Have your say in the future management of St Kilda

Join us at any time between Monday, 23rd November, 6 – 9pm & Tuesday, 24th November, 12.30 – 9pm at the Harris Hotel, Tarbet, Isle of Harris

also come and hear Robin Turner Head of Archaeology, National Trust for Scotland giving a talk on ‘Outstanding Universal Value’: How St Kilda became a dual World Heritage Site Tuesday, 24th November, 7.30pm, Harris Hotel, Tarbet, Isle of Harris

All welcome

16 Nov 09 15:15

CG

Hi my vote is going to be 100% for Leverburgh South Harris as i am a resident of Harris.Leverburgh has to be the most practical place for the visitor centre,The sound off harris is the gateway to St Kilda for most seafarers wishing to visit the stunning islands.There is a great ancourage for yachts and a great pier for larger vessels,there is also a mini market,post office,bar and restraunt for visiting sailors to get provisions and to relax.Leverburgh also has two very well established buisnesses which do day trips to the islands in comfort.if wishing to vist the islands from Uist it would be on a rib,i have seen this for myself,people coming off this type off boat look like they have been riding a horse.(quite entertaining)not to mention the 90% running to the toilet on hiort. As for Mangersta the distance tourists would have to travel to visit the centre is outrages although there is a "New road" Uig has only one buisness offering day trips could it cope with the number off visitors wishing to visit the islands bearing in mind gallan head is not for the faint hearted on the best off days.HARRIS 100% FOR VISITOR CENTRE

16 Nov 09 15:23

Lewis Celt

Anna Coyle, my word, i touched a raw nerve or two, didn't i?! I'm terribly sorry to have so upset you. Having done a law degree, i'm aware that in Scots Law the term is "defamatory". I was merely using "slanderous" because it is more colloquial. So, sorry that your smug attempt at a put-down was wasted on me. I wasn't pointing out anybody's shortcomings, as you bizarrely assert in your post, but was merely defending the people of Uig from the disgraceful insinuations that have been, and are continuing to be, made concerning their honesty. Why don't YOU get off your high horse.

16 Nov 09 15:56

Anna Coyle

Lewis Celt: '(by the way, CP, "criterion" is the singular, "criteria" the plural)'

16 Nov 09 15:12

Lewis Celt

I repeat, Ms Coyle, in signing off from this debate, that i was merely defending the good people of Uig from the disgraceful insinuations that have been made concerning their honesty.

I'm not interested in getting into a childish and personal tit-for-tat argument with you on this. If that's what you want, (and it certainly appears to be), you had better look for it elsewhere. See ya.

16 Nov 09 15:53

CP

Olaf. At no point have I ever implied that “Uig alone were informed of this change in criteria.”

I know for a fact that Harris and Uist were not informed of the changes to the scoring mechanism and I thought I made this clear in my post. I am very keen to know the opinion of the Uig group in relation to the work carried out by the consultants. There is no doubt that the criterion has been changed. That is a fact! I want to know if the Uig Working Group are happy to have been selected via a process whereby both Uist and Harris were misled into submitting their bids against a criteria which was replaced without their knowledge? As for identifying which criteria Uig were asked to submit against; you’d have to ask them yourself Olaf, maybe they’ll answer your question once they’ve answered mine?

I find it incredulous that people have had the audacity to dismiss the complaints of Uist and Harris as sour grapes by implying that we lack the good grace to recognise we’ve been beaten by a better bid. We were mislead into submitting a bid against a criteria which not used in the scoring mechanism. I honestly cannot comprehend how anyone in their right mind expects us to remain quiet about this fiasco. As rmacrae correctly stated “A fair and open process is in everyone's interest,” It’s all we’ve ever asked for but it’s becoming apparent that some people on this thread disagree with this sentiment and are instead happy to endorse an un-fair and effectively dishonest process.

Thanks for the grammar tip by the way Lewis Celt. I never was any good at English but I’m much better with. It’s a shame the consultants don’t have the same attention to detail in analysing figures.

If you want to talk about aggression Eilbheas, choosing to divorce St Kilda from its native parish on the back of a highly flawed study seems pretty aggressive to me.

16 Nov 09 15:09

CG

There is actually 3 companies working from Leverburgh in the summer months i apologise to Angus Smith (Beyond the blue horizon)for forgetting him

16 Nov 09 15:55

Murdo

Of benefit to whole of West Isles so 3 points for all, great spin and complete nonsense... Will it benefit the Western Isles when they have to pump £100,000s bailing it out when its situated in such a remote location. Consultants report stated that it was far more economically viable in Leverburgh because they had hard figures to back that up. Therefore it would be of more economic benefit to Western Isles to have it in Leverburgh ergo 3 points to Leverburgh, 2 to Uist and lord forbid that Mangurstadh actually for the 1st time score 1 point.

The only aggression here was the initial act where the Centre has been removed from its homeland. This isn't a Lewis vs rest Harris/Uist as you so like to portray, the facts are there for all to see and many Leodhasachs are equally baffled by this decision making process. The post that suggests we lighten up and read the “Made Up History of Sty” blog demonstrates the point, this blog is very amusing but the point of final paragraph is that no matter what the case the Goat Island Centre it still ended up in Mangurstadh, it is mocking the St. Kilda Centre's final location.

16 Nov 09 15:51

Hebridean

I'm unbelievably saddend by the tone of some posts on this site. There seems to a very clear insinuation that Jura Consultants prefered Uig's bid due to some dodgy, behind-closed-door type deal. I take it this is due to the fact that an ex-Labour Government minister now lives in Mangersta - if so, then could the people who are behind this whispering campaign just come out and say so?
I feel sorry for the people of Uig, as even if they do eventually get the go ahead for this centre, this smear campaign will just run and run. People of Harris and Uist, don't lump all of Lewis together - Uig is not Stornoway, it suffers from loss of population, lack of work opportunities every bit as much as your own areas. No one community has the moral right to this centre - good luck to all communities involved in this process. May the best bid win, and please, let's raise the level of debate from the petulant, near defamatory level it has sunk to on this site from some contributors. Let's keep it civil.

16 Nov 09 17:05

C MacLeod

rmacrae You didn't answer the question posed by Olaf:

"Are you making the statement that Uig alone were informed of this change in criteria and asked to submit on that basis?"

CP: "I think I can I safely deduce where your political allegiance lies :-D (Shock Horror!) but that obviously has nothing to do with this debate does it?"

What exactly do you mean by this? Have the guts to come out and say what you mean - don't hide behind sarcastic throw away lines.

16 Nov 09 18:38

Seumas

Meg, you claim 'Nobody in Uig would want to be associated with any process in which there had been any wrongdoing.' According to the hard facts http://st.kilda.info/ and the manipulating of the Gazette`s poll, there clearly has been wrongdoing has there not?

16 Nov 09 18:37

Mòr

How was the Gazette's poll manipulated?

16 Nov 09 18:25

C MacLeod

Seumas, I can't find the website - what is the full address? And, as Mor asked, how was the poll manipulated?

16 Nov 09 18:51

Mòr

http://www.st.kilda.info/

16 Nov 09 19:17

P. Boyle

Seumas, can i ask you what the "hard facts" you refer to are? Would these happen to be "facts" that appear on an anti-Lewis website set up by disgruntled Harris people? Lots of objectivity there....

16 Nov 09 20:37

Olaf The Black

Just some thoughts before I sign off. I need to earn some cash to pay taxes to fund public sector spending you see. Leverburgh eh! Its already been observed for what it is ie a scrap yard. The ferry terminal there is comical with a restaurant thats closed, no shelter, a converted bus selling brown liquid and of course litter and mess. Thankfully at the other end of the journey is one of the jewels of the Hebrides the paradise of Berneray.

CP you contradict yourself in your poorly composed posts but still do not confirm your thinly veiled accusations.

The people of Islivik should rise up and claim their rightful centre - The proposed site is surely nearer their township than it is Mangursta!

I thought the ex minister lived in Meavaig.

Seumas your post is frankly a disgrace. Lets hope you don't embarrass yourself with any further posts.

Anyway I've had enough of this nonsense. If I lived in the southern territories of Clanranald I'd be particularly annoyed by this bickering over cash for a tourist attraction when their basic road infrastructure is utterly neglected. The road once you get past Clachan is a shame on the Western Isles. I say cancel this white elephant until all areas have had their fair share of basic infrastructure. It is the good folk of Benbecula and S Uist that I feel for. Before I sign off does anyone know where I can get the SY Gazette in Edinburgh. I can't seem to get it in RS McColls in the St James or the wee place on the Royal Mile any more. Mar sin leibh agus Oidhche mhath.

16 Nov 09 21:14

C MacLeod

Olaf, Sin thu fhein a bhalaich! Couple of points; Geodh Sgoilt - proposed site in Uig is not closer to Islivik than Mangersta, and also, I believe the ex-minister in question does indeed now live in Mangersta. Also agree with you that Seumas would do better to keep his silly comments to himself - they add nothing to the debate.

16 Nov 09 23:58

meg

No CP, I did not misunderstand your post. Your post was very simple to interpret, no complexity there.

I gave my opinion on an open forum, nothing more, just as you have. But at no time would I question your politics or motivation, for the simple fact that I do not know you personally, and I do not understand where your cynical comments come from since you know nothing about me.

Simply for your information ( I cant imagine anyone else would be remotely interested or would think it any of their business) your 'process of elimination' and powers of 'deduction' have sadly failed you. I can say quite honestly ( transparency being your favourite word, but then Im not the one hiding behind initials, I'm proud to use my own name on the forum) that I have voted SNP since I was 18, many years ago, and even though we can all support a Party it would be a very shortsighted few who would not stand up and criticise their own elected member if they believed heshe was not doing their constituency justice.

Anyway, in your own words that has nothing to do with this debate does it?

And finally yes, CP, I will answer your question, " are you happy that Uist and Harris were told to submit against a criteria which was replaced without their knowledge",....well actually I won't answer it because the Jura Consultants have done a much better job today. Have a look at Hebrides News website.

Again so sad that this site is not so much discussing this matter, as bombarding each other with childish, playground insults. Instead we should all remember that this process is not yet over and that we need to be careful not to discredit and ultimately , harm the Western Isles with angry comments ill-thoughtout.

We are one people whether we like it or not, Hebridians. We love where we live passionately, and for those of us who've been born and lived here much of our lives, I know that feelings run much deeper than for those who simply live here. For that reason lets stop the bickering and look to our future and our childrens future, and find some common ground on which to rebuild our relationships...with or without a St Kilda Centre.

17 Nov 09 14:16

C macleod

Good for you Meg. CP's comments - nothing but nasty sarcasim, sneering mockery and thinley veiled accusations were a disgrace. Such comments serve only to demean the individual responsible and lower the tone of debate. Neither do I imagine the community CP professes to support is proud of his/her remarks.

17 Nov 09 15:44

Mòr

Meg, you should write poetry:)

17 Nov 09 18:40

Richard Leigh

I operate a charter sailing vessel from the Clyde and Mull and try to get to St Kilda at least once or twice a year despite the challenge of having to wait for the right weather. It is a very popular trip. I am disappointed to note that the decision seems to be going against Leverburgh since this would have allowed us to drop into a visitor centre on our way to/from the islands. Even if the weather prevented a crossing, we could still capture at least some of the magic through the visitor centre. You will know that St Kilda is something of a magnet for yachties, but considered to be a challenging passage, so there would be dozens of sailing and a few motor vessels in the same category as myself i.e. disappointed that the visitor centre is not at the only location with easy access for us. The logistics of finding and taking a bus or taxi are very difficult for those on a sailing trip where, even if the links exist and timetables are available on board, the reality of sailing to tides and weather means that timing arrivals and departures is tough. Moreover, there will be plenty of people on a time-limited holiday who will not have the confidence or time to take their yacht out to St Kilda but who may visit Leverburgh. I do understand that feelings are running high on the subject with many strong arguements having to be considered and balanced but thought that the view of somebody who visits the islands, and who brings visitors from all over the world, might have some interest. I wish I had added the comment earlier but have been busy wrapping up the season. Richard

17 Nov 09 21:30

CG

@ Richard excellent comment sailing to Leverburgh is the easy part after that you have the wide open Atlantic which is not so easy.Say you cant get to St Kilda after getting so far you decided to visit the centre it would be a 4 hour taxi journey(return approx)who would do that in reality,the benefits Leverburgh would have is it would be right there infront of you.I have no idea the attraction Uig has for the centre apart from the (Eric Pollard) of Uig.Its not the case of what you know its who you know.

17 Nov 09 21:22

CP

Hi Meg. First of all I do take on board your comments about the bickering which has taken place on this site and I fully accept that it not doing anyone any favours, so I will endeavour to keep all future correspondence as civil as possible.

C Macleod, please understand that if my tone appears sarcastic it is largely because I haven't had my question answered. “Uist and Harris were misled into submitting their bids against a criteria which was replaced without their knowledge.” If I've not included Uig in this statement it's because I don't know what level of correspondence the Uig group had with the consultants. Assuming that Uig worked to the same information that Uist and Harris were asked to submit against, I'd also have to assume that the Uig working group were also mislead into submitting a bid against the same criteria which was changed without their knowledge. I just want to know the opinion of the Uig group in relation to this point.

I would also like to apologise to you Meg for incorrectly assuming your political allegiance, it was a cheap shot and I shouldn't have said it. I would of course prefer to engage in a responsible debate and if you'd prefer to call me Coinneach that would be fine by me although my friends do call me CP and I can assure you that it is not a username that I am trying to (nor am I able to) hide behind.

I don't want to ignite this forum into another furnace of angry posts but I do want to make it clear how angry people in Harris are in relation to what has happened here. Everyone is talking about this and they are furious that the communities concerns regarding the process have so far been ignored. As I see it, the consultants most recent report explains nothing whatsoever to justify how they've chosen to score the study and it only serves to further increase my fears about the management of this selection process.

Going back to my original question Meg. I would like this answered please and I'd appreciate it if you could sort this out for me. Thanks, CP

17 Nov 09 22:41

meg

CG, oh dear! Who exactly is the Eric Pollard comment alluding to?(as if we didnt know, your such a kidder! Or are you just a massive Emmerdale fan, like me!

You know, when you use ( ) what you say before them and after them actually has to make sense;) Bless.

CP, (?C.M) my respect for you is growing. What you say makes sense! But, I must reiterate that you should reread the Jura Consultants response to comments on St Kilda centre recommendation paper. Have they not answered your question?

I can't answer for the Uig group as I cannot claim to be one of them, unfortunately. But, as a layman I have no problem understanding every word.

Finally , I have no wish to continue contributing to this forum because, in my opinion, all questions have been answered clearly, as stated above, (also, my ironing pile is getting higher and the kids are in peril of going to school in dirty clothes!)

Seriously though, I do not wish to add to any more bad feeling or raised blood pressures. There has been enough of that.

I can see we will not all agree supposing the Uig / Harris hills would disappear and we would all be one district. Wouldn't it be great if we could pretend that was the case though, and we could all work together, for all our sakes. Have we all come so far that we can't do that? I really want the centre to be in the right place and truly believe that will happen.

All the very best to all. concerned.

18 Nov 09 11:53

kennybeag

Id like to bring the debate back a few posts: "nobody has got the right to host this centre" . I disagree. I have the right to develop my assets for my benefit, my village has the rights to develop its assets for its benefit, my community has the right to develop its assets for its benefit. St kilda is not only part of the harris parish, but before the council changed the boundaries was part of the OBBE ward. Obbe as in leverburgh. The place where it is throughout history connected at the hip. I believe for what its worth that we do have the right to develop the centre. not only on these grounds but on the grounds that businesses have been developed in leverburgh that have taken tourism to st kilda to another level. These businesses have a right to be threatened by displacement at the hands of publicly funded opposition. ( as do all other businesses on the west side of lewis... read your report and be warned that displacement is a prerequisit for a successfull mangerstagh) I also believe we in harris have a right that when the council states in its locval plan that leverburgh is a regeneration zone that they follow that up. not ignore it and hold a "competition" to see where investments should be made. They also own leverburgh pier area and have a duty to develop it. The people of uig have a long and rich history of amicable relations with the people of harris. I have no doubt this will continue whatever happens. Questions do however need answering as to how uig gets the road it did when the road to south harris is in such a poor state. and by any reasoning more deserving of funding than the uig road,and recognised as a priority for the council.(deja vue?) It is decisions like this that cause concern about even handedness and transparency. my previous post declared this whole process to be flawed. i have not changed my mind much. our council is inept and until we all see that i believe the western isles are heading down the pan.

18 Nov 09 14:13

P. Boyle

I keep reading that Leverburgh had the best bid on the basis of Harris' supposedly superior moral claim to St kilda, because of St Kilda's one-time inclusion in the Parish of Harris.

Can i suggest that on that basis therefore, that Inverness has a legitimate claim to St Kilda, on the basis that Harris used to be in inverness-shire? (before local government boundaries were changed in the 1970s). In fact, Ross and Cromarty could claim the Lewis Chessmen on that same basis. Just a thought...

Also, as someone from the Mainland, and therefore not intimately connected to either community, who has been in Leverburgh and Mangersta on many occasions, i would have to say that there is no comparison between the two proposed sites. Leverburgh is not an attractive place visually, and has a slightly run-down, industrial feel about it. Mangersta, however, is wild, beautiful, dramatic and unspoiled - surely a more fitting location for a centre devoted to St Kilda. No?

18 Nov 09 15:19

Domhnall Caim

Following on from P Boyle's post. Leverburgh was developed in the 1920s by Lever Bros however the choice of developing this backwater into a harbour was heavily criticised and warned against by locals and marine advisers alike. This advice was ignored. On Leverhulme's death the place was dismantled immediately and has been an industrial wilderness ever since. The 'harbour' is a hideous hole that you'd half expect Baldrick to be walking about with his 'Get it Here' sign. On this basis I think that Kennybeag's previous post is a very good one and opens up a bigger issue than the proposed centre. Leverburgh should be re-generated as a proper ferry port. By that I mean properly planned out (a bit like Grimsay is) To simply plonk a high profile building in such an unkempt and unordered place would be madness. This harbourfront development would give Leverburgh a role to play as connection to St Kilda no matter what the outcome.

18 Nov 09 17:59

C MacLeod

Kennybeag: "Why did Uig get the road it did when the road to south harris is in such a poor state......?" A lot seems to being made of this magnificent new road that Uig has got. Can I just explain a little bit about Uig - it is a large district in geographical terms - made up of approx 20 townships, ranging from Gisla all the way up to Brenish. It takes about 25-30 mins to cover that distance. (Mangersta is about 10 mins away from Brenish).This much talked about new road extends from Gisla all the way to the far end of Enaclete - the very next township. It must cut - oh, all of 3 minutes of the journey to Stornoway. The rest of the Uig road - is pretty much all single track, and every bit as "poor" as any in south Harris.

19 Nov 09 17:34

Mark Hnerys

As a company, Northern Light Charters have run up to 6 liveaboard vessels out to St Kilda over a period of 15yrs. For a number of years we also ran the NTS work parties out there as well. The idea of a St Kilda centre when first mentioned to me struck me as an excellent suggestion. Leverburgh, with its historic parochial links to Kilda seemed to be the emminent choice. Allied to this connection is the fact that Leverburgh and Harris has become over the years a hub for transit to Kilda. Whilst our cruises commence from Oban, invariably we will spend time in this locality. In adverse weather Leverburgh, Rodel and West Loch Tarbert are our (along with many yachts)staging posts before passage to Hirta. A visitor centre at Leverburgh would have been accessible to us all and would provide a welcome attraction to improve visitor satisfaction. The choice of Mangurstadh I find completely baffling and flies in the face of common sense. It will certainly not improve the visitor experience of my passengers especially given its location and no anchorage. Why can we not consolidate and reinvigorate Leverburgh with an excellent centre that would dovetail into the real and exisiting links to Hirta? The proposed site at at Mangurstadh strikes me as crass political tokenism. Please let us look at the reality of what is already working, enhance it for the better.

20 Nov 09 10:16

Tony Dalton

Hebridean Wildlife Cruises Ltd I can only concur with Mark Henrys comments. I too am baffled why Leverburgh wasn't chosen as the best location. I have also visited the other sites and in my view the Leverburgh option is by far the most beneficial for tourism. I also use Leverburgh as a stop over on all of my cruises to and from st Kilda and it is by far the best option to locate a visitor centre. I would urge the consultants to consult the people who actually take the tourists to St Kilda and get their viewpoint and expert input into the matter. I would also urge the council to consider not just the consultants view point but that of the tour operators who run to St Kilda from all over Scotland.

21 Nov 09 15:22

na hearadh

Anyone with an interest in future plans for a St Kilda Visitor Interpretation Centre will find interesting reading in a paper called Visitor Centres and the Spirit of Place published by Dr S Woodward by the International Centre for Responsible Tourism http://tiny.cc/96Ece as it deals with the role of visitor centres in creating or supporting a spirit of place– it also discusses the question of how then can visitor centres contribute to this feeling and has a discussion of World Heritage Sites Visitor Centres. It states ... “the spirit of place is not an intrinsic attribute of the location, but rather the individual’s response to it”.

The paper starts with a brief review of how ‘spirit of place’ has been defined, followed by an overview of why people build visitor centres. It includes an assessment of the ways in which such centres can contribute to spirit of place and then a discussion of the opposing situation, where such centres can actually get in the way of the visitor experience. The paper concludes by presenting a checklist for potential developers to consider before they start on yet another visitor centre, in order to ensure that any future visitor centre developments can actually contribute to the ‘spirit of place’.

23 Nov 09 11:49

Mary Ann Kennedy

Leverburgh. End of story!

24 Nov 09 23:09

na hearadh

The fact that this website has been allowed to be repeatedly spammed, while at the same time it claims to be a public service to encourage people to participate in the public consultation process, also funded by the public, speaks volumes about the value placed on the consultation process.

25 Nov 09 10:48

Kirstie @ Proiseact nan Ealan

Na hearadh, yes we have unfortunately been troubled with lots of spam - it seems the more this page is used the more spam we get. We are keeping on top of this most of the time - you can see by the dates how much we get every single day. Unfortuantely our moderator is off work this week and so some spam has built up since the 23rd November. We hoped that this forum would be a place where people could voice their opinions on the St Kilda Centre on an existing website rather than spending lots of money at this point on a new one. As the forum is not directly related to the consultation procecss, but is a place for people to discuss the St Kilda Centre, I hope you won't use 2 days of spam as a refletion on the value placed on this process. Like many popular pages on the web, spam seems to be a problem we can't stop, we can only deal with each day - I would welcome any advice from web / new media experts who could help us combat the amount of spam we do get?? Cheers Kirstie

25 Nov 09 23:35

Robert Barlow. - Elizabeth G Charters.

I have been running both Diving and Wildlife charters to St.Kilda for the last 10 years and I believe that the only logical place for a St.Kilda Centre is Leverburgh. Like the majority of Boats making a visit to St.Kilda we nearly always transit through the Sound of Harris and stop over at Leverburgh. It is the natural 'stepping stone' on the journey and also the place most boats would head for if having to leave St.Kilda in bad weather to seek shelter. As described earlier Leverburgh is now the Transit Hub for visitors to St.Kilda and therefore the natural choice for the proposed St.Kilda Centre. I know that all of the guests that we take on our charters to St.Kilda would definitely visit the new centre if it was located at Leverburgh and I'm sure it would enhance their visit to St.Kilda itself..It will be the number of visitors to the St.Kilda Center that are going to make it successful.

26 Nov 09 15:49

Richard McGuire

Surely the Comhairle haven't been so stupid as to have Malky Maclean, a native of Uig, on the St Kilda Working Group as the PnE representative??

If so, then this is a blatant conflict of interest which was not raised, and as such the process is fatally flawed.

But surely not.....

27 Nov 09 11:19

CP

Hi. Can anyone on the forum confirm who it is who actually owns the land in Mangersta where the proposed centre is to be built?

1 Dec 09 15:46

Andy

Not sure who owns the land in Mangersta - I'm sure someone will be able to answer this, as this must have been a significant factor in deciding exactly where to locate the centre in Uig. I understand the site in Leverburgh is owned by the council, and to reference an earlier point, it would fit in with the council's supposed regeneration plan for this area.

Furthermore, having read the recent posts by boat operators (from Mssrs Henrys, Dalton and Barlow) I have to ask if their opinion was sought by the consultants in making their decision?

4 Dec 09 08:20

Dave Gilmour

I would have thought North Uist was the logical sight for the centre with the best chance of actually seeing St Kilda. I would definitely visit on my next trip to Askernish. The Western Isles can only benefit from a good spread of attractions along it's length. With regards to the spam you're getting you need to implement CAPTCHA to prevent automatic spamming of the nature you're seeing.

7 Jan 10 09:42

H.C

I would like to add that nobody targeted young people to give their opinions on such a big decision. Surely the St Kilda centre working group, and who ever else involved, should have gone out of their way to get as many opinions as they could from as many different age groups as possible in order to collect accurate data? Did they do their research as well as they should have? I think not. It seems to me that they missed out a whole generation while they were making their decision. I am under 20yrs and ask any of my age gruop if they were targeted for their opinions. I don't feel that the means in which they collected their data was enough to base such a huge decision on. Aren't we the ones that will be running this centre after they all retire? Some people high up tend to be under the impression that young people don't care about things like this, that they are not interested. Well i certainly do care. It was your responsibility to give us a voice and you failed.

I would also like to add that while going through some articles in the gazzette on line i noticed this "6th November :LEVERBURGH are emerging as early leaders in the Gazette online poll on the location of the proposed St Kilda Centre. North Uist is currently on second spot, with the Comhairle's preferred choice of Mangurstadh trailing in third" Isn't it slighlty odd that Leverburgh was ahead with N.Uist as second choice then suddenly Mangursta has a huge percentage of the vote? Suspicious? I hope this information wasn't put forward when making the decision.

10 Jan 10 16:34

Alasdair M

RE H.C's Comments, I'm also under 20 and think there was a missed opportunity when it came to consulting the younger generation, but i think public consultation in general was an area which could have done with more effort. In regards to the Gazette poll, big deal! of course there was nothing underhand about it... of course Harris and N.Uist were in the lead to begin with, they were the ones who initiated the idea, being the 'losers' and all that! So when, after the Hearachs and Uisitich had placed their votes, the breaking news was released to the public and the rest of the public registered their interest it was claimed a farce when Uig overtook the others....well there is a simple reason for that..... UIG WAS THE BEST OPTION!

I think the remit was to propose a site and plans for a WORLD CLASS centre in a WORLD CLASS location, and unfortunately Leverburgh pier is not a world class location....infact it's pretty grotty, so maybe the Harris team should admit that their proposal wasn't great and that is what they are sour about, but rather than admit they made a duff of things they start finger pointing!

11 Jan 10 11:10

H.C

With regards to your comments Alasdair M, i'm glad that you agree young people didn't have a chance to voice their opinions. My arguement is not with you, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. It seems then, that without the opinions of young people, quite a large majority, the votes and data collected were inaccurate. It's not a case of sour grapes. I could accept the decision if i thought it had been concluded after looking at accurate data, but it couldn't have. As i and Alasdair have both said our age group didn't get the chance to vote. It seems to me that there were countless ways of involving young people from across the islands to participate in the dabate but these ways of including young people were not looked at or put into action.

12 Jan 10 13:46

William Kelly

Alsadair M,

You don't need to tell us you are under 20. The immature content and tone of your post makes it quite clear.

12 Jan 10 20:02

Alasdair M

The tone of my post is reflective of the tone adopted by those who contested the consultants recommendations, I guess I'm amongst many in my immaturity then. Although on my side I have a defence that i in fact am not a 'grown-up', although I do seem to be able to seperate the reality from the fantasy which dosen't take much effort in this case!

World Class Location for a World Class Centre....

Harris has many world class locations, the pier in Leverburgh isn't one of them!

13 Jan 10 09:39

Proiseact nan Ealan

We have now installed CAPTCHA to this page which should cut out the incredible amount of SPAM we've been receiving. Thanks for your patience, Kirstie

14 Jan 10 11:45

Morag Ann

I think Alasdair sounded anything but immature in his comments, if anything he was being blunt and sometimes that can hurt those who have difficulty with the truth. I think it may be time to accept the findings or the numerous meetings, consultations.

14 Jan 10 11:29

Morag Ann

*of the numerous meetings.....

14 Jan 10 21:50

Donnchadh

Put it on St Kilda! Replace the military camp that's there with something a bit bonnier, and end the bickering. You sound like a flock of gannets after the one fish!

14 Jan 10 22:20

Terry

@Alistair M: Bit dodgy impersonating minors on the internet isn't' it? :) Think u rather over-egged the pudding.

@W Kelly: Don't flame, argue fairly your point. Leverburgh is word class, Jura praised the view out across the Sound of Harris. State of Pier is correct but you would think such visionaries would realise it was perhaps possible the Council could clean up their own pier. Mangurstadh had v. nearly 3,000 votes in gazette poll, clear evidence of cheating.

@Morag Ann... Are you the real Dr. Who? Your 1st post at 11:45, your correction 16 minutes in the past.... Strange, most strange :-S

@Kirsty thanks for installing the Captcha.

15 Jan 10 00:52

Alasdair M

@Terry....what is it they say about keeping quiet and maintaining an air of decorum rather than opening your mouth and looking like a fool...something along those lines anyway... I'm in the Nikki, 6A1...I'd give you my date of birth but i hear it's a bit dodgy in this day an age as you pointed out yourself...for all i know you might really be a smart guy impersonating a patronising git, or you might just be a patronising git!

18 Jan 10 20:06

Donald I

Alasdair with reference to the Gazette poll and your claim that “there was nothing underhand about it.” Unfortunately the Stornoway Gazette have already confirmed that this was definitely not the case. They published a statement alongside the findings of the corrupted vote complaining that multiple voting had taken place. Unfortunately they didn’t detail which location was responsible for the vote rigging, so all that we can do is safely assume who the culprits were (Uig) and then wait to be branded liars for coming to such a logical conclusion based upon the compelling evidence before us (it’s been a bit of a reoccurring theme over the last few months)

Morag Ann. The only difficulty that people in Uist have with the truth is the lack of it throughout this process

19 Jan 10 11:46

Nick

Any plans for a St Kilda Day 2010?

20 Jan 10 23:48

Barbara macLean

The centre should be in Harris at Leverburgh-this was where the people came in time of need & where all the relevant documents are. It is obvious how biased the reports were in favour of Mangersta.

21 Jan 10 22:57

AM

Barbara MacLean 'It is obvious how biased the repors were in favour of Mangersta'
Maybe not bias - possibly in favour because Mangersta actually better option?

Posting new comments is currently disabled on this thread, sorry